thanks for choosing god.

Useful links:
The Origin Of Species
The Atheism Web
Positive Atheism
Freedom From Religion Foundation

So here's the thing: christianity, and very especially catholicism, frowns heavily upon self-gratification. However, their own deity is the one who created an entire planet solely to support a race that he created, in his own image no less, whose only purpose, generation after generation, is to praise him with their every waking thought.

If that's not masturbation, I don't know what is.

Prayer, the holy handjob. C'mon baby, if you really love jesus you'll do it.
Pray hard! Harder! Faster! Who's your holy father? Who's your daddy? Oh yeah, jesus is coming! jesus is coming!

Interesting, if slightly worrying, article. And by worrying I mean that it's worrying that anyone could possibly believe the intelligent design creation myth drivel in this day and age. The Earth isn't flat, people, the sun doesn't revolve around it, and it wasn't created by a giant pixie in the sky.
It's astonishing that even in light of so much evidence supporting evolutionary theory, people can actually believe this creation nonsense. And that's worrying because humanity is so advanced in some ways, and so sky-worshippingly primitive in others, and there's plenty of opportunity for the two to cross over. president george w. bush, for example. The guy who theoretically holds the power of nuclear (nukular) bombardment in his hand believes that the entire world was created on the whim of a magical bearded faerie who has nothing better to do than to create people to worship him. And then set fire to them if they don't.

Ah, the bible. A quick summary for those of you who haven't read it, and may not be familiar with the main characters:

In Genesis 3:16 god punishes all women, innocent or not, with painful childbirth and subjugation to men.

In Genesis 7:4 god has a bad day at the office, thus decides to drown innocent babies, and animals both wild and domestic.

In Exodus 4:11 god boasts about making people handicapped.

In Exodus 4:23 god resorts to hostage taking and terrorism in order to get his own way. He does this via threatening a baby. Soon, he is slaughtering little babies all across Egypt.

In Exodus 9:19-20 god slaughters Egyptian cattle. Sometimes, cow tipping just isn't enough.

In Exodus 9:29-30 god kills off innocent babies, and whatever cows he missed earlier.

In Exodus 20:17 god tells us not to free another's slaves. Abolitionists beware!!

In Exodus 32:27-28 god tells the sons to slaughter their neighbors: 3,000 men are slain.

In Leviticus 19:20-22 god demands that raping a slave woman is punishable by scourging the victim. The rapist is to be forgiven.

In Leviticus 25:44-46 god tells his followers to make slaves of their neighbors.

In Leviticus 27:3-7 god helpfully provides a pricing guide. According to this guide, as a male between the ages of 18 and 60 years (the most expensive category), I am worth approximately US$25. How much are you worth to god?

In Numbers 14:18 god's idea of justice is explained: little children are to be punished for their great-great grandparents transgressions.

In Numbers 31:1-54 god tells his followers to commit genocide, "sparing" only the virgin girls, who are to be raped. Even god gets some "unspared" virgins.

In Numbers 33:4 god kills of another batch of Egyptian babies. Abortion is a sin because...?

In Deuteronomy 2:33-36 god demands genocide again. No mention of virgin girls this time, unless these children are raped to death...

In Deuteronomy 7:2 god demands more genocide from his followers.

In Deuteronomy 13:12-16 god demands new and improved genocide, now including cattle. Oh, wait, we've had that before. Damn cows.

In Deuteronomy 32:21-26 god glories in being a psychotic terrorist. Don't miss the atrocities of Deuteronomy 28, either!

In Joshua 6:18-19 the omnipotent creator is short of cash, again.

In Joshua 8:22-26 god demands more genocide, plus some more slavery as detailed in Joshua 9:21-27, but this time, in Joshua 10:10-11, we get slaughter and a chase scene!! Go, god!!

In Joshua 10:28-32 god demands still more genocide.

In Joshua 11:6-17 god still demands more genocide. There are more exceptions to "Thou shalt not kill" than there are to a rich man's tax code.

In Judges 1:2-7. god's takes a break from genocide, has his followers kill "only" 10,000 people, but at least they get to torture and mutilate somebody by cutting off both thumbs and big toes!

In Judges 1:12-13 Caleb offers his daughter as prize to anyone who conquers the City of Debir. The girl's cousin wins the contest, thus the prize.

In Judges 1:17-19 god gets back to good, ol' regular genocide. Killing innocent people is serious work!!

In Judges 2:14 god has a temper-tantrum and sells Israel into slavery.

In Judges 3:28-29 & 4:15-16 god reverts to, you guessed it, genocide.

In Judges 5:30 god hands out a damsel or two to each of his rapist soldiers. Booty Call!!

In Judges 10:17 god gets angry at Israel, again, and sells them into slavery, again.

In Judges 12:6 god slays 42,000 innocent people because someone with a speech impediment mispronounces the word "shibboleth". I'll bet you thought the word "lisp" was cruel jest.

In Judges 15:4-8 a "righteous" Samson captures 300 foxes, ties their tails together, and sets them on fire. Abusing animals is almost as righteous as killing babies, apparently.

In Judges 19:22-30, after taking in a traveling Levite, the host offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine to a mob of perverts (who want to have sex with his guest). The mob refuses the daughter, but accepts the concubine and they "abuse her all night." The next morning she crawls back to the doorstep and dies. The Levite mounts her dead body on an ass and takes her home. Then he chops her body up into twelve pieces and sends them to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Judges 21:7-23 in order to find wives for the Benjamites, who were unwilling to use their own daughters, the other tribes attacked and killed all occupants of a city except for the young virgins. These virgins were then given to the Benjamites as "wives".

In 1 Samuel 2:10 if god doesn't like you he will send a thunderstorm to break your body into little pieces. In 1 Samuel 2:31-34, if god really doesn't like you, he will cut off your arm, consume your eyes, grieve your heart, and slay your sons & grandfathers. In 1 Samuel 5:6, 9, and 12 we learn that if god really, really doesn't like you, he will give you hemorrhoids in your "secret parts".

In 1 Samuel 5:11 god wipes out another city.

In 1 Samuel 15:2-3 god demands more genocide, this time as punishment for some no doubt petty transgression committed hundreds of years previously by the forefathers of these innocent people.

In 1 Samuel 15:7-34 god goads Saul into torturing & slaying his prisoner, a King.

In Matthew 5:17 Jesus strongly approves of the law & the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.

In Matthew 8:21 Jesus shows no compassion for the bereaved, saying to a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead."

In Matthew 8:32 Jesus abuses animals by sending some devils into a herd of pigs, causing the pigs to run off a cliff & drown in the sea below. The acorn does not fall far from the tree. Was there a local shortage of Egyptian cows? Moo!

In Matthew 10:15 Jesus becomes a terrorist, and threatens genocide against cities.

In Matthew 10:28 Jesus tries to scare people by telling them that his dad can beat up their dad.

In Matthew 11:20-24 Jesus threatens more cities.

In Matthew 12:47-49 "Mister Family Values" himself (Jesus) is disrespectful to his mother and rude to his brothers.

In Matthew 13:41-42 Jesus threatens to send his angels against any who offend him, and send them straight to hell. Love, peace, tolerance, and forgiveness are beneath him, apparently.

In Matthew 15:4-7 Jesus commits hypocrisy by demanding all others to honor their parents. "Sorry about being rude back in Matthew 12, Mom."

In Matthew 18:8-9 Jesus advocates self-mutilation, but for others, not him. He's perfect, thank you.

In Matthew 18:25 Jesus advocates slavery.

In Matthew 25:29 Jesus proposes a system of economy where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In Mark 5:12-13 Jesus spooks 2,000 pigs, causing them to jump of a cliff and drown in the sea. Is this evidence of more animal abuse, or is the story from Matthew 8:32 getting better with each telling?

In Mark 6:11 Jesus resorts to threatening cities again. Die, innocent babies, Die!!

In Mark 7:9-13 Jesus criticizes people for not killing their children, as they should have, according to Old Testament law. The same law Jesus broke when he was disrespectful to his Mother in Matthew 12:47-49.

In Mark 10:29-30 Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and children.

In Mark 11:13-14 Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing fruit, even though it was out of season. Apparently, "Mister Perfect" wasn't much of an agronomist, or ethicist.

In Luke 8:20-21 Jesus is disrespectful to his mother and rude to his brothers, again. Or still?

In Luke 8:27-37 Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. This story does get better with each telling!!

In Luke 10:10-15 Jesus terrorizes entire cities, claiming they will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. No doubt these people preferred their pigs.

In Luke 12:46-47 Jesus likens god to a sadistic, diabolical slave-owner, who will beat you "with many stripes".

In Luke 14:26 Jesus decides that it is not enough for men to abandon their families; they must actively hate them, too. Where is the love??

In Luke 16:17 Jesus declares that all the vicious, irrational laws of the Old Testament are binding forever.

In Luke 17:27 Jesus talks about Noah, neatly demonstrating his own ignorance of science, history, and justice.

In John 2:4 Jesus is, again, rude to his mother. She seems so nice, too.

In John 5:14 Jesus stupidly announces that god handicaps people as just punishment for their sins.

In John 7:8-10 Jesus lies to his family about attending a feast.

In Acts 5:1-10 Peter, with god's help, kills a man who sold his possessions, but did not fork over all of the earnings. Why is the omnipotent creator always short of cash?

In Acts 13:48 we learn that only pre-ordained people would be allowed in heaven. So much for freewill...

heh heh heh...

Quote found on Fark relating to the new, less violent version of passion of the christ:
I want a version where Jesus looks up and says, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?", and God looks down and says, "Holy Smokes, he's right. I'm an idiot. My son's death serves naught but a symbolic purpose, which means I'm the one requiring his death, which means I don't really need it to happen! I could simply erase sin from the earth and bring all souls to Heaven if I wanted to -- I'm all-powerful! I can do anything I want! I'm going to erase Satan from existence and create Paradise throughout the Universe...


A jehovah's witness made the mistake of coming to my door. I had been watching Voyager, so I was already in a bad mood when he rang the bell. He was here from about five minutes into Voyager until about fifteen minutes to the end. Forty minutes, at the end of which he left, visibly shaken and loaded with atheist site URLs.
I'm not naive enough to believe that I've had a permanent effect on his worldview, but I lectured him for forty minutes about the contradictions in the bible, the illogic of the concept of free will when god is supposed to be all-knowing, the irresponsibility of a creator who makes a species driven to propagate without restriction, and then covers most of the world with uninhabitable ocean.. I explained the concept of superbugs, and their use in illustrating the concept of evolution, I asked why god, a creature supposedly of infinite compassion and mercy, would create beings like the spider wasp and the screw worm, who through their very life processes bring about horrifying suffering. I demanded to know where god was now, given that all he had to do was to give a sign, which he used to do all of the time, in order to convert me and save my soul. All simple questions, all completely lacking answers. And I don't know what they teach them at jehovah's witness conversion shock troop academy, or wherever it is they learn the skills that they need to go door to door and spread their drivel, but it was painfully obvious when he recognised an opening in my arguments that he thought he could counter, one for which he had obviously been briefed, because his eyes would light up and he would launch into a rehearsed speech.
For example, at one point he tried to liken the Earth, and the life thereon, to a house, saying that a house couldn't spontaneously come into being without a creator. Another of his arguments, which betrayed hideous, unforgivable ignorance, was that the possibility of life spontaneously developing was incredibly low, but for there then to be both a male and female, and for them to mate... of course, I had then to explain the concept of cell division and asexual reproduction.
As the lecture went on, he became visibly more agitated, fiddling with his teeth, resettling his shoulders again and again.. he even took out a bible and clutched it in both hands, as though for comfort. Idiot.
No, seriously, I couldn't believe how dramatic his reaction was. He eventually gave up and, edging away, started talking about the cars in my driveway, and how his ride was coming to pick him up any moment, so he should be out at the roadside waiting.
Afraid of the questions I was asking, the points I was making, and his complete lack of an answer. He'll go home now, or to his church (of kingdom hall, whatever they call it), and immerse himself in his book, trying to drive away the doubts that were obviously bothering him when he left me. He'll probably succeed. But maybe, maybe he'll wonder why it bothers him so much, and why he doesn't have answers to such simple questions.
I doubt it, almost completely, but anything's possible. More likely, he'll probably reaffirm his faith, and then come back armed with new strategies and arguments, and try to convert me.
And if he does, I'll be waiting.
(at this point, that cool-yet-dramatic Megatron eye-glowy thing would have been a nice touch.)

I hate these things. Having said that, according to the "Which Enemy of the Christian Church Are You?" quiz:
I'm a Philosopher/Scientist!

Which Enemy of the Christian Church Are You?

Take More of Robert & Tim's Quizzes
Watch Robert & Tim's Cartoons

Heh, those wacky yankee bible thumpers. Well, no big loss, right?
In case the link goes away, essentially in Ratsass, VA they have a serpent handling ritual involving rattlesnakes, which they seem to think indicates obedience to their god. Why their god wants them to handle deadly snakes is beyond me, but bible thumpers aren't known for their sense. Anyway, rev. Dwayne Long was chomped by a rattlesnake, which serves him bloody right. He refused medical treatment, probably thinking that his god would save him from the snake venom.
His god didn't save him from the snake venom.
Apparently, people involved with the ritual feel that when people die from a rattlesnake bite, it's their time to go. I tend to think that if they die from a rattlesnake bite it's because they're too fucking stupid to survive.

Speaking of yankees and religion, Florida has opened a second faith-based prison. Church and state should be what?
america is turning into a great theocracy. It gets worse all the time. I'd say "god help the non-christians" but that would be kind of silly. I just hope that this government doesn't get another term. Think how much of every aspect of american life christianity will have managed to infect by the time they leave...

Pack it up, pack it in
Let me begin
I came to win
Battle me that's a sin
Word to your moms I came to drop bombs
I got more rhymes than the bible's got psalms
And just like the Prodigal Son I've returned
Anyone stepping to me you'll get burned
Cause I got lyrics and you ain't got none
So if you come to battle bring a shotgun

This looks like a good read if you're one of those people who takes the bible seriously.

Along those lines, how well do you know your bible? Read the Evil bible Quotes page and see what you're missing. It's all straight from the book.

Bible-thumpers are freaky people. I mean, who the hell let this guy get his license? I certainly don't want someone who is likely to resort to prayer flying my plane. I trust my life to the pilot, and if that pilot trusts his life to a magic, invisible pixie in the sky, he's trusting all of our lives, and I'm really not comfortable with that.
"We've lost an engine! I'd better pray for deliverance! Only god can save us now! Steve, get on your knees here with me and pray!" as opposed to "Christ, an engine's out. I'm going to try to glide us in. Steve, get on the radio and advise ground control that we've lost an engine, and then.. [etc]."
And to then have that pilot trying to cram his religion down your throat while you're flying.. no, no thank you. I'd rather try to fly the plane myself. At least my co-pilot wouldn't be an old man that no one's ever seen. You'd be better off with Harvey the Rabbit.

Accosted by a bible thumper today. It went roughly like this, as best I can remember it:
him, stepping out in front of me: excuse me...
me: Hm?
him: have you heard the word?
me, thinking that that's not terribly original: No. Which word?
him: the word of our lord.
me: No, I haven't. What do I get if I hear the word of your lord?
him, apparently trying to keep it kind of light: Well, if you're lucky, you go to heaven.
me: And if I'm unlucky?
him: You'd have to spend an eternity in hell for rejecting jesus. [commences a lecture about how if I don't worship god, I've been tempted by the devil and must go to hell.]
me: so, essentially, you're saying that everyone goes to heaven who worships god, and people who don't worship god have been tempted away by the devil?
him: yes
me: and that god wants everyone to go to heaven.
him: that's right
me: So, let me summarise, just to make certain that I have this clear in my head: god created heaven. god created earth. god created humanity, and put it on the earth, even though he wants humanity to be in heaven, and knows that those people will eventually end up in heaven, so there's really no need for earth in the first place. god created angels, too. Now, here's where it gets confusing: one of those angels, lucifer, became evil, and decided to tempt humanity into sin. Kind of like Darth Vader. So god, knowing that one of his angels was becoming evil, set down a bunch of rules so that lucifer could tempt humans to break them. And then he created hell to torment humans for all eternity for not resisting the temptations of lucifer, though he didn't design them to withstand lucifer's temptations in the first place because lucifer wasn't supposed to exist. Even though he knew that lucifer was going to exist because he is supposed to be all-knowing. So, essentially, though he wants them to be in heaven, god puts humans on Earth knowing that they will be tempted by lucifer, and that many of them will end up having to go to hell and suffer eternal torment. When he could just put them straight into heaven and forget the whole Earth business, or just destroy lucifer, and then they wouldn't be tempted. Right?
him: god wants to test our faith...
me: Why?
him: to make sure that only the faithful go to heaven
me: but if satan is the one who tempts humans away from their faith, then skipping the Earth and putting everyone straight into heaven would mean that he wouldn't have to condemn anyone to hell. So from this we can conclude that god wants some people to go to hell for eternity. Alternatively, why doesn't he destroy satan?
him: the lord works in mysterious-
me: this lord of yours sounds like a bit of a jerk, don't you think? He creates the concept of sin, lets satan go around tempting people, and then condemns the people who are tempted to an eternity of torment, even though he's the one who put them into the position where they could be tempted, and therefore tormented, in the first place.
him: god did not create sin. jesus hates sin...
me: He's the one who set down the rules. He's the one who made it possible for satan to tempt people to break those rules. Therefore he invented sin, and made it possible for people to be cast into hell. Why?
him: our lord works in myst-
me: You already said that, and it's such a cop out. Try using your brain. If you're going to accost me in the street and tell me that I need to convert to your religion, you need to have a basic understanding of it yourself. How about this: jesus died for our sins, right?
him, cautiously: yes
me: ok, so now look around you. Do we seem to be completely sin free? No? So what good did it do? god let them kill his only son for nothing. What kind of god is that?
him: It wasn't for nothing! god wanted to save us from sin-
me: and yet you still have to stop me in the street and ask whether I've been saved? So jesus and god did a really crappy job, didn't they? And god, being all-knowing, must have known that his plan to sacrifice his son wouldn't work, but he did it anyway. So now god's sent both his son to his death and his human creations to an eternity of torment. So far, the track record's not looking too good, is it? In fact, if god was all-knowing, he must have foreseen that lucifer would become evil and want to hurt humanity, and yet he still let it happen. Which again suggests that god wants humans to suffer. And you worship this guy? You have the gall to say that he's a "loving god" when what he actually is is an abusive bastard. What the hell kind of loving father figure is that? [at this point the guy is looking very uncomfortable, and trying to pretend that other people are waiting to talk to him] I mean, the guy gives you all of these rules knowing full well that you can't help but break them. He hard-wires it into you that you're going to want to do the things that he forbids, like shagging and thinking and things, and then just to make certain, he creates an imp to run around on the Earth and tempt you. What the fuck kind of monster is your god? Hm?
him: [picks up his briefcase and fliers, and leaves]

christians anonymous

Because remember: god in his infinite compassion does not want you to go to hell, which he in his infinite mercy created.

If you're an atheist, you've probably had that argument with a christian at some point. You know the one.. they throw what they think are logical arguments at you (most of which make no sense whatever), and you shoot them down.
It's not just you.. we all have to deal with that nonsense. That's why this page is here.. to recognise the ridiculousness of the arguments. Some of them are exaggerations, but I've seen a lot of them myself.

The paradox of the stone:

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent (definition).

2. God either can or can not create a stone so heavy that even God cannot lift it.

3. If God can create the stone, God is not omnipotent, there is at least one thing God can't do.

4. If God cannot create the stone, there is at least one thing God cannot do.

5. If there is it at least one thing God cannot do, God is not omnipotent ([2] - [4]).

6. Therefore God does not exist ([1], [5]).

According to the 2001 census just released, religion is fading in BC. The number of people declaring that they have no religion is up to 1.3 million, or about a third of the population, which is up from less than a million in 1991. Check this out:

religion19911991%20012001%+/- #+/- %
No religion974 35030.0%1 356 60035.1%+382 250+5.1%
Protestant1 359 80541.9%1 213 29531.4%-146 510-10.5%
Roman Catholic595 31518.3%666 90517.2%+71 590-1.1%
Other Christian86 6702.7%200 3405.2%+113670+2.5%
Sikh74 5452.3%135 3103.5%+60 765+1.2%
Buddhist36 4351.1%85 5402.2%+49 105+1.1%
Muslim24 9300.8%56 2201.5%+31 290+0.7%
Christian Orthodox23 5400.7%35 6550.9%+12 115+0.2%
Hindu18 1560.6%31 4950.8%+13 339+0.2%
Jewish16 6400.5%21 2300.5%+4 590-

Canadians as a whole are taking religion less seriously, though.
According to the census, 20 000 people gave their religion as "Jedi." And more than 75% of Canadian Jedi are from BC, Ontario, and Alberta. Yay BC!

In other words,
we're winning!

america prides itself on its freedoms. To that end, it established the first amendment to their constitution.
So what the hell's all this about? It's scary. Maybe the american government "recognizing the public need for fasting and prayer in order to secure the blessings and protection of Providence for the people of the United States and our Armed Forces during the conflict in Iraq and under the threat of terrorism at home." isn't the best way to go about protecting that freedom. Just my opinion, of course.

As someone on posted:
A nation this full of idiotic sky god worshipers should be kept away from the weapons that secular science created. I think we've all seen the result.

"A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant."

The US Constitution. Remember that? It's the one whose first amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The US president. Remember him? He's the one who just made it a law that no matter what your religion, you will pledge allegience to america being one nation, "under god," thereby making the christian god and the american nation indivisible and destroying the last pretense of the freedom of religion supposedly guaranteed by the first amendment of the US Constitution.

Meanwhile, the Godless Americans, with their march on Washington, are fighting a very losing battle. If their government won't listen to the document upon which the country was built, they won't listen to the roughly 2400 people who showed up to voice their opinions. From fundamentalist christians you cannot a religiously impartial government make.

The christian god is a just and merciful god, they tell me. Riiiiight.

Hm. It occurs to me that Christianity could effectively be described as "a religion based upon crucifiction."

Ah, the rational mind. My parents inform me that, when I was young, I had a theory about christianity. You see, in my school in England, there was an assumption that children had been raised on the christian bible. (You know, Religion For Dummies.) So they didn't take any time to explain the nonsense that they were reading to us from the book at assembly in the morning. They just assumed that we'd understand it. Apparently, I came home after one such session and informed my parents that "jesus died on a crossing." When they pressed me for details, I explained that I suspected that he may have been hit by a train. After all, how can someone die on "a cross," when a cross is a mark like this: X
Since they didn't explain what they meant, I established a theory. The closest thing to cross on which someone could die would be a crossing. Why would they die on a crossing? A train. That's rational thought for you. :)

Go here.

god was pretty lazy when it came to body plans, wasn't he? I mean, really. He supposedly created millions of different species, and, what? Sixteen body plans? I mean, jesus god, be a little more original. The guy's supposed to be able to create anything, right? So why do all mammals have the same body plan? If humanity is supposed to be created in god's image, how come it's fundamentally no different from any other mammal? Two front limbs, two hind limbs, a head with most of the sensory organs on it, a tail (or just a tail-bone), hair, and so on. Even marine mammals are the same basic design. Look how close the human design is to the apes. This is the best he could do?

So, if god didn't intend you to masturbate, why do your arms end where they do? I mean, c'mon. Not only did he load you up with sensory organs, but he put them in easy reach? Talk about convenient access to parts and recreation.

Yet another reason that women need freedom from religion. I mean, as if they needed more reasons.

Here's what I don't get. The bible is supposed to be inspired by god but written by men, right? And we're all supposed to know that the bible was inspired by god because the bible tells us so. But it was written by men. No one denies this. Has it not occurred to the bible thumpers that maybe the men who wrote it lied? People do that. I mean, if I tell your typical christian that I'm jesus reborn, they won't believe me. Why not? I couldn't be lying, could I? After all, I'm jesus, and jesus wouldn't lie. And they know I'm jesus because I tell them so, and I can't be lying because jesus wouldn't lie. It's the same thing exactly. The bible can't be a lie because it's inspired by god. And you know this because it tells you so. feh.

Story: Court rules against Pledge of Allegiance
Litigant explains why he brought Pledge suit (that beacon of impartial reporting)

So here's the deal: In america they have the Pledge Of Allegiance, in which you are expected to show your servile devotion by reciting a bunch of words. This is because, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, americans still believe that their country is the best in the world. Whatever. Most americans seem to be fanatical about their country anyway, and so they are pretty happy to do this. But the problem is that the pledge contains the words "one nation under god" which is offensive to non-christians. And rightly so. The official american position is that america is a nation united under the christian god, and that it places its trust in that god. That tramples all over the right to freedom of/from religion that's supposed to be guaranteed by the american consitution. Some time ago, the american supreme court ruled that a person should be free to not salute the american flag and not say the pledge of allegiance if (s)he didn't want to. Fine. Good ruling. If someone's going to pledge allegiance to something or someone, they should really be doing it voluntarily. The fact that people don't have to say this is being used as a defence by the theists who want to keep the under god part in the pledge. "You don't have to say it if you don't believe it."
Yeah, the problem here is that the pledge is the only pledge to the nation, and it equates believing in america with believing in god. So what do you do if, like Michael Newdow (the litigant in this case) you believe in america but not in god? Georgie Bush sr. apparently said that atheists shouldn't consider themselves real americans. Whether he said that or not, that's the attitude that's being presented here. Georgie Bush jr. said today that "the United States 'is a nation that values our relationship with the Almighty' and said the judges that ruled that voluntary recitals of the Pledge of Allegiance in schools is unconstitutional are 'out of step with the traditions and history of our country.'"

Of course, he's dead wrong. Look at the original version of the pledge: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. "
That is far more 'in step' with the american consitution than forcing one particular god down the throats of the people of the country- a people who are supposed to benefit from freedom of religion.
Look again, George. "Under god" was only added in 1954, and because the paranoid government of the time equated atheism with communism. (That's hilarious.. communist nations tend to be more religious than democratic ones. "Religion is excellent stuff for controlling the common people."-Napoleon. Once again the americans get it completely wrong.)

Religion and patriotism are separate. Church and State must be separate for equality, and in his remarks, american president georgie bush jr. has shown that atheists and other bible-thumpers are second class. He's promoting that idea that atheists can't consider themselves americans.

Bush said the ruling from a panel with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California ignored the fact that the Declaration of Independence acknowledged "we receive our rights from God." He said the court's decision was proof of the need for "common-sense judges" who "understand we derive our rights from God."

This guy is supposed to be defending the american constitution? The one that guarantees freedom of religion? How effectively can a religious person defend the right to freedom of religion? Let's keep in mind that his religion states that anyone who doesn't believe in his particular god is a bad person who is going to hell.

"I feel that this is part of our history and no one has a right to change it," said Staff Sgt. Katherine Romar with the Army's 10th Mountain Division at Bagram Air Base. "That is the reason why we're here today, fighting to uphold our freedom."

Hello? If freedom is what you're fighting for, why are you complaining about a decision that affirms that freedom? If your freedom means not having other ideas forced upon you, how can you not feel that being forced to submit to religious dogma is a violation of that freedom?

What I want to know is, why not just take out the "under god" part and just return the pledge to its previous form. That way it doesn't impact anyone's rights.
Or is that too complicated for bush? He's only the president, after all.

Recommended reading on the subject:
Taking The Pledge -Freedom From Religion Foundation
Ninth Circuit Pledge Decision Recognizes "Liberty and Justice for All" -Freedom From Religion Foundation
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