thanks for choosing god.




Oh dear. I've upset god. He's going to have words with my supervisor, apparently. god's wrath isn't what it once was. Maybe when christians talk about "the fires of hell" they're referring to holy pinkslips?

From: Edgar Mata
Sent: Sunday April 27, 2003 8:33 PM
To: wildsong@presidentbushviolently-happy.net
Subject:

woe to you! for you are incuring the wrath of god!
you and your followers are building a spiritual babel.
a spiritual babylon. your human arrogance is blinding
you. you say you dont need god because you are strong
emotionally, you say that science can explain
everything. yet, how coem many misteries remain? you
say the church is an institution of evil, so go tell
that to the people in africa who are supported by
missionaries. woe to you! if god is a fantasy then why
do so many people believe in it? how come people
belived in it? how could 12 men who were average
people,spread the gospel so far into the world, with
out the holy spirit? how could 12 men speak languages
they never dreamed of speaking in 1 second?
can your science explain what happend to father pio?
how he had stigmatas, how his body temprature was 150
at times? can you explain how he could see visions of
other places? remember, father pio lived this in this
very century. can you explain how the prophet daniel
prophesises the hellensitic wars? how isiah predicted
that a king named cyrus, would free the jews? and
remember, this all happend about a century before
those events occured.

how long are you going to be blinded by your lies.
how can god be intolerant, when he gives you the way
to heaven. god sends those to hell who dont accept him
and refuse to follow him. He gives us free will, he
dont treat us like slaves. even the worst killer can
be saved if he repents. but no. you dont feel like
repenting. you dont want to. you know deep inside your
heart that your leading a blind life.

go ahead, attempt to prove the word of god is a
fallacy. if you dont want god then continue follwing
satan. shroud your self with human teachings that
comfoft you by saying, "dont worry you wont be
punished for your sins because after death you cease
to exist"

also,dont even try to lead people astray. because of
you , you might condemn people to hell for all
eternity, all thanks to you.


think about what i said
From: Wildsong
Sent: Tuesday April 29, 2003 3:03 AM
To: Edgar Mata
Subject: RE:

Heh, the wrath of god. That's cute.

:: woe to you! for you are incuring the wrath of god!

Ok, bring it on.
Waiting.
Still waiting. What, not even a lightning bolt? Not even a bee sting?
Perhaps that might be true, if god existed. But tell me, if he exists, why doesn't he show himself? If so many people fail to believe solely because there's no evidence, why doesn't he just pop in and say hello? He used to do that all the time, according to the bible, and it's never been as important as it is now. Even my neighbour calls around once in a while to say hello. That's all it would take to save countless souls from hell. That's the hell that he created, remember, to torment human kind for all eternity. That's the one. Not really a benevolent god, then, is he? Look up "benevolent" in a dictionary. This is the guy who grants you free will, absolute free will, freedom to disbelieve in his existence, freedom to not follow his rules. And then tells you that if you use that free will, you'll be condemned to this hell of his for all eternity. What kind of a sick mind-game is that? This is the guy who defines what's good and what's evil, what's sinful, and then designs humans to naturally desire those sins. Sex? Oh, that's a sin, even though you're hard-wired to want it. Greed? That's a sin, even though the society he's designed us to create is entirely based upon money. Freedom of religion? Nope. Sin. You're not allowed to worship any god other than him. If you don't spend every waking moment living for his glory, offering praises and tributes, you're sinning, my friend. What kind of inferiority complex does your god have that he has to constantly be the centre of attention, and constantly be told how great he is? And what does he do in return? No one has ever provably seen him. No one has a photo of themselves having lunch with god.
Usual spiel: god loves me and wants to save my soul. god created me to be a rational thinker dependent upon evidence to shape my beliefs, and absolutely unable to take anything on faith. god therefore knows that all he has to do is pop in and say hi, and I'll be forced to believe in him. He knows that if he doesn't do this, there's no way I'll believe, and I'll go to hell. So, there are two possibilities. Stipulating for the moment that god does exist, either he created me knowing that there was no way that I could avoid hell, and that makes him a sick bastard, which is totally anathema to everything that you've been taught about him, or he doesn't actually create humans and/or make the rules. Which is totally anathema to everything that you've been taught about him. Look up "anathema" in the dictionary. This means that either way, god isn't who you think he is. Which means that all of your beliefs about him are wrong. Either that, or he actually doesn't exist, and that's why he hasn't done anything to make me believe in him in order to spare me an eternity of torment which he knows only hard evidence can provide. Think about it. He outlaws not believing in him, and then he creates me to not believe in him unless I see him, and then he doesn't show up. I never had a chance, did I? Either he's really twisted, or he's completely fictional.


:: your human arrogance is blinding
:: you.

Blinding me to what? Show me something, anything that you can definitely say god created. Something that can't be explained in scientific circles. Something that I will have to stop and look at and say "yeah, you're right. There's no way I can explain that." Show me something that will convince me. Otherwise, you're just making noise. If I'm so blind, and you are not, then show me what I'm missing. I'm open to discussion, as seen by the fact that I'm writing this. Show me what I'm missing. Point it out. You've made the claim.. now you have to back it up.


:: you say you dont need god because you are strong
:: emotionally

Right you are. I have no need for an imaginary friend to hold my hand. I don't need a god to do what I need to do. I take responsibility for my own actions rather than blaming them on some invisible devil. I take credit for my own triumphs, rather than crediting them to some big pixie in the sky. The idea of a god would be laughable if it hadn't ruined so many lives. If you aren't strong enough to get through life without leaning on your imaginary friend, I feel very sorry for you. Look around you, and see the real world as it is. And realise that no god created it. Humanity did, for better or for worse.
Unless, as I asked above, you can show me something that proves otherwise. As a part of this civilisation, I can point to everything and say humanity did that, and trace the development of that technology, tradition, etc back to its origin. Where was god when these things were being created? Show me, and you have a case.


:: you say that science can explain
:: everything. yet, how coem many misteries remain?

Such as? Give me an example. Show me something that science cannot explain. Go on. I'll wait. You can't just say "there are mysteries." You need to show them to me. I can't just say "there are faeries" and expect you to believe it, can I?


:: you
:: say the church is an institution of evil, so go tell
:: that to the people in africa who are supported by
:: missionaries.

"You want some food? Say praise the lord. Ah, no, say praise the lord, or no food."
Let's keep in mind that these missionaries are destroying the cultures that they're coming across, demolishing the ancient beliefs of the people and demanding that they convert to their religion in exchange for their "help." Let's keep in mind that the whole purpose of a missionary is to spread the word of their religion, regardless of the effect on the people who have been surviving without that religion for millennia. Let's look at it this way: if god wanted the peoples of Africa to know about him, his son, etc etc, wouldn't he have told them himself? And if not, then they don't need to know. So what makes humanity think that it knows better than god? You want to talk about human arrogance, how arrogant is the church to think that it knows better than the god it worships?


:: if god is a fantasy then why
:: do so many people believe in it?

When they were first colonising the New World, the colonists genuinely believed that in america, the streets were paved with gold. If it wasn't true, why did so many people believe it? Is Buddhism true? Many more people believe that than christianity. How about Islam? More people believe that than christianity. That must also be true, right? Wait, there are millions of atheists. Atheism must be right, too. The number of people who believe in something makes no difference to how true it is. Remember Orson Well's War Of The Worlds broadcast in the 30s? Thousands of people actually believed that Earth was being invaded by the Martians. Was that true? Is every election campaign promise true? Is pro-wrestling real?


:: how could 12 men who were average
:: people,spread the gospel so far into the world, with
:: out the holy spirit? how could 12 men speak languages
:: they never dreamed of speaking in 1 second?

Now answer me this: how do you know that these things happened? Oh, the book tells you. And the book must be true, because the book tells you that it is true. Suppose that I tell you that I'm telling you the truth, and then I tell you that I painted the Mona Lisa. Would you believe me? It must be true, because I'm telling you that it's true. Did you see the men suddenly learn to speak a new language? Did you see them spread the religion all over the world by themselves? Did you see me paint the Mona Lisa? No. And by using that argument, you're going around in circles. Your argument is: "the bible is true because these men spread religion all over the world. We know that they spread religion all over the world because it's in the bible." That's circular, and proves absolutely nothing.


:: how he had stigmatas, how his body temprature was 150
:: at times? can you explain how he could see visions of
:: other places?

Who measured these things? Hm. People who run the church. And who recorded them? People who run the church. Wait, who stands to gain the most by convincing people that these things happened? That would be the people who run the church. Same as the bible.. they tell you that it happened, and you believe them because they wouldn't lie. And you know that they wouldn't lie because they're the people who run the church. Did you see it? Is it recorded using scientific instruments that you know work, by impartial witnesses? (i.e., people not of the church, who won't profit either way) No. So that argument carries no weight. Had I been there, had I seen the guy suddenly develop wounds, I would be forced to believe. But no one saw it happen who can be trusted as a witness. Besides which, "stigmata" appears in the palms. You can't nail someone up by the palms.. the bones of the hand won't hold their weight, and the nail slips out between the fingers. When crucifying people, the Romans stuck nails through their wrists. You can look that up, but it's just common sense.


:: can you explain how the prophet daniel
:: prophesises the hellensitic wars? how isiah predicted
:: that a king named cyrus, would free the jews? and
:: remember, this all happend about a century before
:: those events occured.

And where was it recorded? Same argument. Now try something that we've seen in the last hundred years that was effectively predicted by the bible. jesus was supposed to show up a couple of years ago, as I recall, but he never arrived. Still waiting on that one.


:: how long are you going to be blinded by your lies.

You have yet to show me evidence that they are lies. All of the lecturing in the world will do no good without any supporting evidence. Show me something. Show me anything. Anything that proves that I'm wrong and you're right. People have tried before you, and every religious argument has been shot down in flames. If you can convince me, if you have that evidence, I want to hear it. If I'm wrong, if there really is a god, I want to know. But in order to believe, I need solid evidence. And if god is real, that evidence is there. So show me. No ranting, no circular arguments. Show me some real proof, or be dismissed as a wacko. I'm listening. I'm receptive. It's time for you to back up your claims. Can you do it?


:: how can god be intolerant, when he gives you the way
:: to heaven.

How do you know that heaven exists? It says in the bible. Remember, circular arguments. I can't believe in heaven because I don't believe in god. To then say that god must exist because he gives me the way to heaven is circular, and a dismal failure of an argument.


:: god sends those to hell who dont accept him
:: and refuse to follow him.

Some people have rational, scientific minds. We simply cannot accept those things that we do not see with our own eyes. It's a type of brain, and if god created all humanity, if he gave us free will, then he made us like that. He knows that we can't believe in him unless he shows himself, and he seems reluctant to do that. Is he then going to condemn us to hell for being the people he made us? Or are we just like this, and god is unwilling to do anything to save us from the rules that he himself created, which he knows don't give us a chance? Or, more likely, does he not exist, and that's why he never calls?


:: He gives us free will, he
:: dont treat us like slaves.

And yet he creates rules that are so strict that a single step out of place and we go down in flames. Parents who behave like that are labelled "abusive" and their children taken away from them.


:: even the worst killer can
:: be saved if he repents.
:: but no. you dont feel like
:: repenting. you dont want to.

I have nothing to repent. Again, stipulating for the moment that god created me, he created me to be who I am. Should I be sorry? Are you saying that god made a mistake when he created me? Do you know better than god? What happened to free will? What happened to not treating me like a slave? But more to the point, I have nothing to repent because I don't believe in your god, and therefore I don't accept your rules. They don't apply to me, there's no such thing as sin, and I therefore don't submit to your judgement. So no, I'm not going to repent. And you know what? I'm much happier without your stifling rules than you are with them. Guarantee you that.


:: you know deep inside your
:: heart that your leading a blind life.

No, no I don't. In fact, I know that I'm seeing the world as it really is, and that you're looking at it through your confused veil of childish belief in an imaginary pixie who you've never seen, who's never provably had any interaction with this world, and who lets violence and hatred run rampant without lifting a finger to stop it. No, I don't lead a blind life, my friend. That privilege falls to your kind.


:: go ahead, attempt to prove the word of god is a
:: fallacy.

Done it. Again and again and again. And people like you keep appearing and condemning me for it, but no one has ever proved me wrong. No one has ever successfully shot down one of my arguments. Not that it can't happen, but it hasn't happened. So show me the arguments, make your points, and show me that I'm wrong and you're right. I'm open to that. If you can prove me wrong, good on you. I wish you all the best. If you can't, maybe you should think about why you can't. But try, do.


:: if you dont want god then continue follwing
:: satan.

Do you not understand the concept of "atheism?" Hardly surprising.. education and religion are often inversely proportionate.
Look up "proportionate" in a dictionary. Look up "inverse" in a dictionary.
Atheism means that I don't believe in a god. Any god. Be it your god, satan, Inana, Poseidon, or any of the others. I don't believe in any of them. How can I follow satan when I don't believe in him? And don't give me that nonsense about satan's greatest deception is that people believe that he doesn't exist. Even if that were true, even if, I would still have to believe in him in order to follow him. Following is an intentional action. No, satan doesn't exist, and neither does god. And you have yet to prove the contrary.


:: shroud your self with human teachings that
:: comfoft you by saying, "dont worry you wont be
:: punished for your sins because after death you cease
:: to exist"

That's right. Life processes stop, the brain shuts down, and you're gone. That's it. Finito. There's nothing else. And there's no way to prove that there is, because no one has ever returned. People report near-death experiences, but no one has actually returned from death after being more than technically dead, and had a story about it. No, there's no god to judge anyone. I think that that's what religious people fear most.. the idea that when you die, that's it. The idea that we're not special, we're just scurrying about trying to survive. There's no grand purpose. There's no heaven, or hell, or judgement. There's just food, shelter, and death. For humans, it's a bit more complicated. There's food, shelter, clothing, taxes, medical, and then death, but ultimately, we're no different from the animals and when we die, barely a hundred years after we're born, we're gone. Is it that which frightens you, Edgar? How small your life, if the concept of an end is so disturbing to you.


:: also,dont even try to lead people astray. because of
:: you , you might condemn people to hell for all
:: eternity, all thanks to you.

I don't go out of my way to argue religion with people. They want to believe, they need that imaginary friend to hold their hand, I'm not going to take that away from them, however sad that might be. However, I've argued religion with people who come to me, and made points that have caused a number of them to start questioning. They want answers, and the church won't give them. I know an awful lot of ex-christians and recovering catholics. Far more people leave your religion than join it, including priests. Doesn't that make you wonder what they've found out to shatter their faith? Shouldn't it?


:: think about what i said

I just wish that you'd said something a little more original. I doubt that you'll write back, but if you do, you think about what I've said, and the questions I've asked. I'm happy to carry this further, and I'll consider every argument that you make, but it must be reasonable and logical, and have evidence to support it. Sensible arguments get you intelligent responses. Religious ranting gets you mocked, and certainly won't convince anyone. If you can't make intelligent arguments, your case is weakened that much more because people look at you and ask why you haven't argued rationally. Not just you, but your beliefs will be judged by the strength of your arguments.
Make them good.

-w
From: Edgar Mata
Sent: Tuesday April 29, 2003 3:03 PM
To: Wildsong
Subject: RE:

um first thing, more peopel believe in christ, and you do get punished for sins. what is something goes wrong. what if you get fired? there are countless way's in which you could get punished your argument is not with me man, it's with god. o and with the little convicning and logical arguments, it wont work with you guys, you know why? becasue you cant prove god exists with science. you have to have faith my friend. f a i t h. i persnoally believe because i have felt god talking to me. i had a nice feeling. it wasnt something like we picture it. but right then i knew that god existed, jesus died on the cross for his sins. who knows, maybeyou will experience that too
From: Wildsong
Sent: Wednesday April 30, 2003 9:36 PM
To: Edgar Mata
Subject: RE:

:: um first thing, more peopel believe in christ,

Nope. There are far more Buddhists than there are christians. And the number of christians is diminishing all the time. You look up the stats. Go on.


:: and you
:: do get punished for sins.
When? It's never happened. Nothing has ever happened that could be a punishment for some sort of sin unless god is really, really bad at making a point. Because I've never got it. I've never thought, oh, you know what, that was probably for having sex outside marriage. I should stop that. If any of these punishments had ever worked, you wouldn't be writing to me now, would you? Or maybe, just maybe, god's all in your head, and there are no sins at all. That seems far more likely.


:: what is something goes
:: wrong. what if you get fired? there are countless
:: way's in which you could get punished

So god's way of punishing me is to get me fired? Dude, that's so incredibly weak. You're not seriously trying to make that into an argument for the existence of god, are you? I mean, not really seriously? That's truly pathetic. Come on, I was hoping for a good debate here, with you making good points so that I could try to shoot them down. That's got to be the most tragic argument a christian has ever made. Seriously, I've never heard one so weak. God used to rain fire and brimstone down on people, and smite them and things, and now the best that he can do is lodge a complaint with my supervisor? Your god is pathetic if that's the best he can do. Oh, that's blasphemy. That's going to get a complaint on my employee file, I'm sure. Smited through the complaints department!


:: your argument is not with me man, it's with god.

It's with you because you exist, and because you're writing. If god popped in and said hi, sure I'd have an argument with him, but he doesn't exist.
If he wants to save my soul, all he has to do is rear his head, but because you're having to confront me over his existence when he's the all powerful one, we can safely assume that he's fictional. He's never shown up, he's never sent any kind of sign. You can't argue with someone who isn't there. And he isn't there. You're fooling yourself. You can't argue with Santa, you can't argue with the easter bunny, and you can't argue with god. It's all in your head. The fact that you have to do all of the talking for him, that he can't even defend attacks on his own existence shows this to be true. I'm sorry that you can't see that.


:: o and
:: with the little convicning and logical arguments, it
:: wont work with you guys, you know why? becasue you
:: cant prove god exists with science.

No, but you can disprove my arguments. If god exists, there are going to be things that can only be explained by his existence. If science is wrong, and religion is right, there are going to be things that you can point to and say "only god could have done that." Things for which there is no scientific explanation. Show me those things. Show me the proof of god by showing me what science can't explain.


:: you have to have
:: faith my friend. f a i t h.

Faith is a ridiculous concept. It requires belief without evidence, but there is evidence of everything, even if that evidence is only the lack of evidence to the contrary. If god did things that science cannot explain, you would be able to point them out. So far, no one has done so. However, everything that has been attributed to god has been scientifically proven as to how it happened, or that it did not happen at all. Even the plagues of Egypt have an explanation. So what remains are unsubstantiated claims on the part of the christians. The only things, to my knowledge, that science has not been able to explain are the things for which there is no evidence that they actually happened. Such as jesus turning water into wine. Sure, there's no scientific explanation for that. But it has yet to be proved that it actually happened. So faith is worthless, because the things that require it probably don't exist in the first place. If you put your faith in those things that you've never seen, I have some stocks to sell you.


:: i persnoally believe
:: because i have felt god talking to me. i had a nice
:: feeling. it wasnt something like we picture it. but
:: right then i knew that god existed,

Are you aware that the exact feeling of a religious experience has been recreated in a laboratory using electromagnetic fields? Are you aware that the brain uses tiny electrical impulses to transfer information from the senses, etc, and that by influencing those impulses with external stimuli, you can interfere with the transmission of information within the brain? And most importantly, are you aware that there are quite a few things out there that can cause this kind of interference? People who get electrocuted sometimes talk about seeing god, as do people who are blasted with electricity after a heart attack in an attempt to jump-start the beating process. I'm not saying that you didn't really feel god, because there's no evidence to support the claim that you did or did not. All I'm saying is that the existence of god is still in question, while the existence of electricity is not, and neither is the existence of the brain. And that religious experiences can be reproduced using scientific processes. If you want to put your faith in something, put it in General Electric. You'll get more of a religious experience out of them.


:: jesus died on the
:: cross for his sins.

So let me get this straight, then. god creates humans, imperfectly so that they can sin. He then sends his son down to absolve humanity of those sins. In order to absolve humanity of those sins, jesus has to be executed. And this does what, exactly? There's more sin now than ever there was before. So either jesus's gesture was completely useless, or sinning isn't such a big deal after all. Pardon me, but I thought that everyone gets judged when they die. Why did jesus need to arrive to deal with this problem? And if he had to do it then, where is he when society needs him now? Or maybe he doesn't exist, and it's all a lot of drivel.
I find that the greatest resistance that religious people have to starting to question, and starting to wonder about answers that make no sense, is caused by the realisation that they've spent so many years in service to something that just might not exist. No one believes so fervently as someone who has something to lose, and to realise that you've wasted so many years of your life in service to a fictional character.. that's got to be hard to take. The ones I respect the most are the ones who are more concerned with finding the truth, and so they ask the questions that they know no one in the church can answer, and they find the answers that will show them how they've wasted the years that have gone before. But most importantly, they find the truth. Many ex-christians and recovering catholics are very bitter about the years they lost to a fictional god. Some of them were priests, nuns, etc. Doesn't that make you wonder what they know that you don't? Why the answers to the questions they asked shattered their faith instead of strengthening it? For surely, if religion is truth, it can withstand any question that you may ask of it. No question will start to cause it to unravel if it is truth. No matter how hard the question you ask of science, the answer is there. Can the same be said for religion? No, otherwise there wouldn't be so many ex-christians. If you want to find the truth, and if you're as secure in your faith as you think, try reading a book called Losing Faith In Faith by Dan Barker, a former priest. ( http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif.html ) It will strengthen your faith, or it will raise questions that that faith can't answer. Either way, you're closer to the truth. The question is, are you strong enough to handle the truth if it's not what you want to hear?

-wild
From: Edgar Mata
Sent: Thursday May 1, 2003 5:16 AM
To: Wildsong
Subject: RE:

im just going to tell you one thing man. proof of
absence isnt absence of truth. and to make it clear,
god doesnt always punish wiht brimstone, fire hail
etc.
From: Wildsong
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 4:12 AM
To: Edgar Mata
Subject: RE:

:: im just going to tell you one thing man. proof of
:: absence isnt absence of truth.

I love it when christians try to be deep. Look, it's very simple. Everything in life has evidence to support its existence. If something exists, it's provable. If you can't prove it, it must be assumed that it does not exist until you can prove it. If I said to you "surprise, all of this time you've been conversing with Cindy Crawford," you probably wouldn't believe me. Or you'd be terribly gullible. But what you're saying is that proof that something isn't doesn't mean that it isn't. That makes no sense at all. What you're saying is that if you meet me, in person, and I say that I'm Cindy Crawford, you can believe it. Even if I don't look like her, sound like her, have any ID to say that I'm her, and am, in fact, standing right beside her. What you're saying is that everything is true, regardless of whether it's been proved to be untrue. You're saying that you believe anything you're told, even when there's evidence to the contrary. Go, right now, and see your nearest used car salesman. Tell him that I said "merry christmas," and that I want a commission for sending you.

Proof of absence is truth. If you believe in something that I can prove does not exist, the truth is that it does not exist. You're not finding truth by believing in it anyway, then. You're hiding from truth by denying the facts that I've proved to you. You're burying your head in the sand and going "la la la!" because you don't like what you hear. The truth isn't always nice. It's not kind and gentle. It just is, whether you like it or not. Maybe you would like there to be a god. Maybe it would be better for all of us, and easier, and you wouldn't just disappear without a trace when you die. But that's a fantasy. The reality is that life is just what you see. Some people get a good break, others don't. No one is watching over you, looking after you, or saving a spot for you in paradise. Life happens the same for you as it does for me. You get no special treatment because you believe in a god. Quite the contrary, you spend your life feeling as though you can't do anything for yourself. You attribute your happiness and success to him. You ask him to help you when your life falls apart. You like to think that he's working through you and through others, and that he's going to reward you for your life of servitude when you die. Athletes, actors, everyone in competition thanks god when they win, but doesn't blame god when they lose. That you can't win without god's help means that, as a christian, you're inherently a loser unless god deigns to give you a hand.

Put it this way: suppose that you and I are playing a game. Any game. Volleyball. Suppose that you win. You thank god. Oh, thank you god for giving me the strength to win. Now, suppose that I absolutely crush you. What does that say about god, and his help? Did god favour me? Did god favour the guy who makes fun of him and his religion, encourages people to ask questions and think carefully about the answers, and isn't going to thank him for his help anyway? Does that seem likely? You win, you think that god was on your side. You lose, and god must have deserted you, which means that you alone are no match for me. Right?

I, on the other hand, take pride in my triumphs, and the fact that I attained those triumphs by myself makes me strong and confident in myself. And when things go wrong, I get myself out of trouble. I don't wait for someone who's never been seen to do it for me. If I win, I know that I won. If I lose, I try harder next time because I know that I have it in me to win, since I've done it before without any help. I'm not inherently a failure without god's help. I can't imagine what you and other christians go through, never being good enough.


:: and to make it clear,
:: god doesnt always punish wiht brimstone, fire hail
:: etc.

But he's supposed to do something. You're going to tell me that getting me fired or giving me a cold or something, which can't provably be associated with god, is going to punish me for not believing in god? That's your argument, is it? That in order to punish me for not believing in him, he's not going to do anything to show me my mistake. He's going to take revenge a little less effectively than an upset human. god can't even key my car by himself. Do you know the stories of the bible? Do you know about Sodom and Gomorrah? Do you think that anything that they did comes close to what goes on now in the world around you? Sex and homosexuality? Everywhere. Murders and violence? It's on primetime television. It's entertainment. Atheism and freedom of religion? Obviously, since we're having this conversation. We do things that the Sodomites and Gomorreans never even imagined. Have you been on the web lately? Why is it, then, that in the old days god could manage to get himself together enough to smite with fire and brimstone for something that looks really tame by today's standards? Just one city.. that's all it would take. Just smite L.A. and the rest of us would sit up and really take notice. But nope, no go. Is god just too old to smite these days? Or is it more likely that the story is pure imagination, and god has never rained fire and brimstone on the world? And that's why they have to say now that he works in mysterious ways, and has to work through people, and takes his vengeance upon me for breaking his rules by getting me fired. Which, I notice, he hasn't done. So even that he can't manage to do. He can't even give me a cold. What makes god so impotent that he can't even give me a cold when I say such things about him? If you believe the bible, it used to be that you couldn't go more than a couple of days without a sign of some kind. There were bushes burning all over the place, god appeared to people left, right, and center, and miracles were an everyday thing. When was the last miracle I saw? Because the point of the miracles is to convert people by showing them the wondrous power of god. I've never seen one. Where are they? One little miracle and I'd be converted. Something that couldn't possibly be explained other than "god did that." It doesn't take much. Fire and brimstone would be nice, but anything that no human could do would sell me. For a guy who created the entire universe, appearing in my living room for lunch shouldn't be such a challenge, should it? Just pop in and have a talk with a real skeptic. He'd be saving a soul, and getting a chance to answer some really good questions (like, "why does the ocean cover over 3/4 of the Earth's surface when the Earth was created for humanity, who has no gills?") and generally show off his handiwork to a newly awed audience. And I make a wicked omlette, too.
So where is he?
He's only in your imagination, Edgar. And perhaps one day you'll see that. And if that happens, just remember: you haven't wasted your entire life chasing faerie stories. The future is still to come.

-w

I didn't hear from him again.


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